St. Mary's Great Dunmow: How we created our Internet site

1. Background
2. Members of St. Mary's Internet Group (SMIG !)
3. Meetings - what meetings ?!
4. Mailing lists - why they're so useful
5. How we created the pages
6. Does it matter where I put the site ?
7. Get yourself noticed - and count your visitors !
8. The usual 'other'....
9. List of useful sites
10. Want to know when this page changes?

 

1. Background 

When we were putting the St. Mary's site together, there didn't seem to be much information available from the CofE - or any other source, for that matter! I then read an article by Stoker Wilson in the CCUG (Church Computer User Group) magazine lamenting the lack of discussion about what churches are doing on the Internet. I wrote to Stoker, and sent him a list of the things we had done to create our site; this has changed over the last few months, so I thought it might be worthwhile putting the information on our site, in case it's of any use to anyone else who is considering building their own Internet site. The following, therefore, is a list of what we did when creating the St. Mary's web site.
As I find new resources, I hope to update this page.

 

2. Volunteers 

The first thing I did was ask for volunteers for SMIG (St. Mary's Internet Group): this got us around 9 people who were interested in getting the church on-line. For our size of church it's been a good number - not too many to become bureaucratic, not too few to feel that it's too much effort. Incidentally, we don't have any 'techy' Internet people in the group - having an HTML coder would perhaps have been too much to hope for in our little town ! Of the 9, there were three of us who were quite happy to roll up our sleeves and work out how to put the pages together, and the others who had absolutely NO interest in the techy side of it, but who were quite willing to offer advice, write pages, vet the output, etc. This was exactly the sort of mix I'd been hoping for, so we've been very lucky. One of the things I stressed most to people was that I wanted people who were INTERESTED in creating a site - this was going to be a FUN group where we were volunteering because we WANTED to do it, rather than because we felt we HAD to !

 

3. Meetings ? Who needs 'em ?! 

We've held a sum total of ONE meeting so far - we've been able to get most things agreed/done via email. Our main aim at this meeting was to decide exactly WHO the site was for - was it to give information about the church to 'non-regulars', for disseminating info. like PCC meeting minutes, coffee rotas, etc. to the regulars, or a mixture of both ? We decided that our MAIN aim should be to give information about the church to people who don't normally visit St. Mary's; in the future, we will, however try and add more information for our own members. Some people have asked why we'd ever want to put things like the diary dates on our site, when we have paper versions available at the services; however, I'm one of those people who carefully put the notices in a pocket, and then lose them within five minutes of leaving church. For me (and others like me), being able to access this information on a web site is really useful. In addition, we are able to update information and add late-breaking news.

 

4. Mailing lists - making communication easy... 

Something I thought early on would be useful would be to create a mailing list which we could use for our group. I created my mailing list at Yahoogroups (http://www.yahoogroups.com) [Note: this used to be called onelist, then became egroups, and is now Yahoogroups !], where you can set up lists free of charge and there are LOTS of options you can use with the lists you run - for example, subscribers decide if they want individual emails, a daily digest, or simply want to be able to read the mail via the Web (these last two are useful for very busy lists - not exactly our StMarysGreatDunmowIG mailing list, really !!). In addition, there is a calendar function available, where you can create events for your mailing list - if you want, Yahoogroups will even email your members (when you decide) to remind them of the event ! The advantage of creating a list is that people in the group don't need to know others' email addresses, or whether new people have joined: we're now up to the dizzy heights of around fourteen members of SMIG, and people still only need to send mail to StMarysGreatDunmowIG@yahoogroups.com - it saves people a lot of bother and bounced emails.....

We've now created a further two mailing lists - one open to ANYone (called simply StMarysGreatDunmow) which is being used to send out the weekly notices and anything else about things which are happening at St. Mary's; and the other one which I'm hoping will be used by our Youth Group - in this day and age, most (all ?) of our 11-13 year olds seem to have either their own email address, or at least access to one.

On the subject of mailing lists, it's worthwhile mentioning that Yahoogroups have various settings which are available to you as a moderator: these include whether:

1. people can subscribe to lists directly, or whether they need to be 'approved' by you;
   
2. members can view the email addresses of other members of the list;
   
3. members can 'post' messages to the list.
   

And how we've set them up...

1. in each case, I've set it up so that people need to 'apply' to join; this simply means that when they send a blank email to, for example, StMarysGreatDunmow-subscribe@yahoogroups.com it will set their membership as Pending, and send you (and any other moderators you choose to set up) an email telling you that jbloggs@somewhere.com wants to join your list. It is then up to you to decide if you want the person to be allowed onto the list; if yes, you can just reply to the email and jbloggs will be added; ignore the note, and he/she won't. See point 2 for the reason I force each person to be vetted.

2. Call me paranoid, but in this day and age, where spamming is becoming ever more common, I didn't want people to join our little list just to gather valid email addresses. I have therefore set up our groups in different ways: members of SMIG (all of whom I know) can see each other's email addresses, whereas members of St. Mary's cannot. Perhaps I am being paranoid, but we've had two people ask to join the SMIG list who have not replied to requests I've sent them - that makes me suspect that they're spammers. While I'm talking about emailing potential spammers, it's vital that I tell you that I created another email address at Hotmail - it's a free, web-based email system - and I'm not too bothered if it gets spammed. If you think that someone who wants to join your list doesn't have a genuine interest in your list, get a Hotmail account (or any other which you don't mind potentially losing under a deluge of unwanted mail !) and ask people to justify why they should be allowed to join. I know it sounds harsh, but, as the old proverb says: "It's better to be safe than spammed...."   ;)

3. This really depends what you're using the list for: in the case of our SMIG mailing list, which was for 2-way (15-way ?) discussion, I set it up so that everyone could post messages, and all messages would be sent out to all other people on the list; however, at the moment I've set up the St. Mary's list as an 'announcement' list, ie I am the only person who can send mail to the list. Oh yes, and in each case people who are not on the list are never (sorry for the overkill, but I want to make sure this is clear !) allowed to post messages to the list !

2004 update: Our new hosting company offers us our own mailing lists, so we have now stopped using Yahoogroups. Rightly or wrongly, I feel the main advantage of this is that I have more control over the list; I can also now send out 'proper' html messages (to make that last comment hopefully slightly less mud-like, if you have a look at the Diary page and then imagine an email which looks exactly like that, then that's what I can now do!). Oh yes, and there are no advertisements included in any emails! Although we no longer use Yahoogroups, I would still recommend it if your hosting company do not offer an alternative.

 

5. The Software we used to create the pages 

Although I have Microsoft FrontPage 2000 on my PC, I've not been using it for our site - at least, not yet. I found a FANTASTIC set of tutorials called PageTutor (it used to be called WebTutor) - available from http://www.pagetutor.com/. They start off assuming absolutely zero knowledge of HTML, and take you through the lessons in a very logical way, going from "What's a web page" to exercises on Forms, Tables and Frames. We've simply used those tutorials, together with some free software called Notetab (http://www.notetab.com) to create what we've got so far. Notetab is more like Notepad than a WYSIWYG package - you start with a blank page, but can use short-cuts (from a very impressive choice !) to input the required HTML codes. Note: Notetab is available in a variety of 'flavours': I tried the free version for a while, and liked it so much I bought the 'Pro' version.

Perhaps we'll get around to using FP2000 at some point, but for the moment, our basic approach seems to be working - and we're learning about writing HTML too ! Another PS: PageTutor is no longer free: perhaps unsurprisingly, Joe Barta is asking for money (not a great amount - see his web site for exact costs) for the pleasure of using his tutorials. However, you can still see get an idea of the tutorials, as he's made the first few chapters available on his website to whet your appetite !

If you don't want to learn about HTML and don't have something like MS FrontPage, don't worry - you've probably got software on your PC which will be good enough for your needs. If you are using Netscape, have a look for a program called Composer; and if you are using Internet Explorer, look for a program called Front Page Express. Note: if you can't easily find them, use the Windows 95/98 Find option to do it for you (sorry, those of you who are using something else !): click on Start / Find / Files or Folders, then type in, for example, 'Express' (minus the quote marks !) and make sure that the search (Look in) is shown as c:\

In order for everyone in the group to be able to see how things were developing, we started off putting our attempts onto some web space I had. This worked very well, as it meant we didn't have to have regular meetings, and didn't have to say to people "Imagine, if you will, a screen where...". This was always meant as a stop-gap measure, as we intended to get ourself an account - probably with one of the free ISPs like FreeUK.

 

6. Does it matter where you put your site ? 

An easy answer to this one: NO !
However (you just knew that was coming, didn't you ?), I think it gives a more 'professional' feel to the site if you've got a good internet address. As I mentioned above, we started off using my web space with FreeUK, but wanted to create an address with the church's name in it; so, initially, we were thinking of opening an account with FreeUK. This would at least give us a site with our name in it, 'though it was never going to be ideal - it would have been something like http://www.freeuk.com/stmarysgreatdunmow. I wanted something which sounded better, so I went to FreeNetName (http://www.freenetname.co.uk) where you can register .co.uk and .org.uk domain names. As the name implies, freenetname is one of the no-cost ISPs which now abound. Their main advantage is that you can register a domain name for your church at no cost - freenetname pays the charges, 'though if you subsequently decide to move to a different ISP and want to take 'your' name with you, they'll charge you £25. I've been very impressed with them: not only is their web site very good, but they employ REAL people on their support desk ! Oh yes, and the support telephone number is freephone !! We are now the proud owners of http://www.stmarysgreatdunmow.org.uk - MUCH better, we feel - even if it IS a bit of a mouthful !
2004 update: Although I'm sure that freenetname is absolutely fine for most people, I decided to move from them, as I wanted to use some software which they couldn't offer. An important point which I think churches need to consider is who/how updates to the site will be handled: if the site is fairly stable, or you're in the lucky position of having lots of time spare, then routing it all through one person is probably fine (and, of course, ensures consistency!). On the other hand, something which I realised to my cost and frustration is that our setup meant that I was really the only person who could make changes to the website (due to the way freenetname required me to dial-up regularly, and having to have some knowledge of html to create the pages). This was fine most of the time, but meant that if I went on holiday, nothing on the site could be changed. Also, because my job can get very busy, there are some fairly major bits of work which I've never got around to finishing, and which I feel very guilty about (so, Sorry Sue!).
Fortunately, someone at work told me about some free software called Typo3, which should get around my issues: as the administrator of the site, I can set up other people with access to certain pages, so for example I'll be able to give Sue access to the Nursery pages (!); and, because of the way Typo3 is set up, users don't need to know about html - instead, if they use Internet Explorer they'll be able to use something which looks like a poor man's version of Word to create pages. I've only just set up my first guinea-pi... user, so once I've got some feedback about how that works, I'm hoping to give access to other people so they can make whatever changes they want. Oh, by the way, I mentioned above about consistency: the way the site is set up should ensure that everything remains consistent, even if different people are doing 'their own thing' - the font and look/feel will be common.
If you want to have a play with Typo3, have a look at http://demo.typo3.com, but if you decide you like it, be warned - Typo3 is NOT straightforward to implement: you need more skill than I've got - not that that's saying much! ;-)
And finally on this subject, it's nice for me to know that Kasper (developer of Typo3) is a Danish Christian.

 

7. Get yourself noticed - and count your visitors ! 

OK, so you've created your site and you've got the world's best internet name from freenetname, so why aren't people thronging to your site ?

Most people find internet sites via search engines like Google, Excite UK, etc. So, to make sure that people find you, you've got to be 'found' by these search engines. Whenever you go to one of the search engines, see if your site has been included; if not, don't despair - at the foot of the screen you'll probably see an 'Add URL' button, where you'll be able to put in the details of your site. Be aware, though, that it can take WEEKS for your details to become available.

To check where site visitors are coming from, I use one of the myriad number of web counters available. (To see just how many there are, have a look at http://www.google.com/search?q=%22web+counter%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&start=20&sa=N !!) and we are currently using cqcounter.com. To see what sort of information it gives you, have a look at http://cqcounter.com/?_id=pwhittic&_lo=uk". Please note, of course, that the numbers will be very low, as it doesn't seem possible to include the almost-4500 visitors which were recorded by our previous web counter (websitegarage) !
While this may not be the most important thing in the world, knowing where your visitors are from IS very interesting ! We have a counter on the front page which tells me how many visitors have seen the site, whether they've been here before (very interesting - you can tell if it's just the same people who are coming back time after time, or whether you're getting any new visitors), and - in many cases - where these people are calling from.

2004 update: with the new hosting, we get lots of useful statistics about visitors, so I've not included cqcounter on the new front page; hence if you have a look at the stats. above, you'll see they suddenly stop!

Another place to try is AddMe: again, it's probably very US-biased, but it's a good way of getting yourself added to a lot of search engines

Of course, make sure that your site is included in the obvious places:

• Church-Search;
  
• ChurchNet;
  
• Anglicans Online;
  
• Your local diocese web site;
  
• local web sites, such as one for your town.
  

 

8. What else ? (aka 'other' or 'whatever else is left over') 

• I'm very keen that everyone in the church feels some sort of 'ownership' of our site - I don't want people to think that they've not been allowed any input, so I now need to find some way of making sure that everyone - both with~ and without Internet access - can see the site. At the moment this is just a paper copy of the web pages, 'though alternative suggestions will be gratefully received !

• If you create your web-site using FreeNetName (and, probably, with anyone else), you'll be able to create your own email addresses; so, for example, we've created some 'new' email addresses such as Info@stmarysgreatdunmow.org.uk. These can be very useful, but beware: all mail will actually come through to ONE email address - in our case, it all comes through to me, as the person who set up the original account. I then forward mail as required. We've been pleasantly surprised that these addresses have been used (and not abused !) for some interesting mail from different parts of the world (eg Ghana, Russia and Romania). Also, remember to dial up and collect this mail ! As it's not my 'normal' email address, I have to make a conscious effort to collect it.
  2004 update: with our new setup, info@... is automatically routed to one person, vicar@... goes directly to David, etc. This is much better for all concerned - no issues about potentially private mail coming through to me, no need for me to act as postman ('though Postman Pat does have a certain ring to it!) Also, there is a totally consistent look to email addresses across the site, and peoples' private addresses are hidden.

• As a result of the CCUG article, Martin Adams recommended the COIN (Christians on the Internet) mailing lists. This is an excellent excellent list, with lots of people willing - and able - to help. The COIN site is at http://www.coin.org.uk

• If possible, don't create your site alone: you need other people to bounce ideas off and supply words and inspiration, praise and criticism. I've had great fun with this site: it's the first web site I've helped develop, and it would have been very difficult without the help of the other SMIG members. Thankyou Bruce, Deirdre, Gerald, Gwynn, Helen, Mike, Michael, Pam, Peter, Sally, Simon, Sydney, and Sue !

• When you're creating your site, please make sure the vocabulary you use is suitable for the people you're aiming for ! In our case, we've aimed it at people who do not currently attend St. Mary's (and perhaps, have no church background); hence, we have avoided - or explained - CofE 'techno-speak' such as BCP, Rite A, etc. We've perhaps been lucky that I don't have a CofE background (CofScotland !), so have been able to perhaps better recognise words and phrases which aren't part of 'normal' speech !!

• As you'll have seen from the above, our site has cost us very little - everything has been free apart, of course, from the cost of the 'phone calls to upload our pages and send emails.
  2004 update: we have now moved from freenetname, and our hosting is no longer free :-( However, what we're getting is, I believe, well worth the money - we have fantastic support and much more functionality than we had before. Our hosting is excellently handled by http://www.jigsawhosting.co.uk.(Steve, if you read this that must be worth at least £5!!)
  

 

If you think I've missed off anything, or have any 'tips' of your own which I could add, please let me know and I'll update this page.

 

 

Regards

 

Patrick Whittick (Patrick@StMarysGreatDunmow.org.uk)

 

 

9. Links To top

I've mentioned many links in the paragraphs above, but thought it might be useful having them in one place again; in addition, I've added some other useful links...

HTML 'stuff'

PageTutor - how to create HTML

http://www.pagetutor.com

 

NoteTab (an excellent tool for creating HTML pages)

http://www.notetab.com

Search engines, +

The best search engine of them all !

Google

 

An example of one of the 'more British' search engines...

Excite UK

 

The search engine used by the CofE to find UK churches

Church-Search

 

And another search engine for finding churches

ChurchNet

 

Anglicans Online

Anglicans Online

 

Another place / way to get your address added to the search engines



Mailing lists

There are others, but I'm very impressed with Yahoogroups

(http://www.yahoogroups.com)

Free webspace / email

As the name says, you'll also get your own domain name !

FreeNetName

 

If you need another email address...

Hotmail

Other

Of course, I had to mention it !

Church Computer User Group

 

Christian Computer Art

www.cc-art.com

 

Hosea - a site set up to help you "design a good church website".

www.hosea.co.uk

 

ChurchUK

www.churchuk.net

 

Christian Information Network

www.cin.co.uk

 

Find a Church - The UK Church Directory

www.findachurch.co.uk

 

Christian Sites

www.christiansites.co.uk

 

UK Christian Web Links Jobs Events Churches Resources

www.christianweb.org.uk

 

British Guild of Christian Webmasters

http://www.christianwebmaster.org.uk

 

 

10. Want to know when this page changes? To top

The website http://www.watchthatpage.com will monitor pages for you, and inform you when there are any changes.

If you would like to know when this page changes, please click on the button below. Before you do, however, please make sure that the address shown at the top is http://www.stmarysgreatdunmow.org.uk/index.php?id=19, and not http://www.stmarysgreatdunmow.org.uk/index.php?id=19#change !!

Get notified when this page changes!
by WatchThatPage.com